[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/phpbb/session.php on line 580: sizeof(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/phpbb/session.php on line 636: sizeof(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable Practice Routine: Three Camps (Chop Builder) - snarescience.com
"Three Camps" is actually a standard old school rudimental solo. Exercises have been written
with the basic solo format. Listen to the late great Frank Ar senault play the original solo on
this audio clip. (after he breaks down the long roll). I owned this record in high school and
listened to it until I wore it out. What an inspiration. Remember this was on mylar, not kevlar.
Hey Dennis, thanks for the Frank Arsenault sound file. Love it. I can clearly hear bagpipes in the background though. If I listen carefully enough, I might be able to recognize the tune being played. Any idea where this recording came from and why we hear bagpipes? Just curious.
Not sure about the pipes? I had an Eastman recording of Three Camps played with the original fife tune, but alas,
I have it no more. They don't make 'em like Frank anymore. What a terrific example of solid rudimental drumming.
No guessing what he's playing. Just plain out rock solid drumming at its finest.
The bagpipe music in the background is a tune called Lord Alexander Kennedy, a well-known competition 2/4 march. On the drumming side of things, I have not heard such a robust sounding open roll for many, many years. Alex Duthart used to play rolls like that though they were much less commonly used in pipe band style drumming. He would use them in fanfares more than anywhere else. Unfortunately he has passed away.
I am interested about the technique used by Ar Senault to achieve that full, robust sound. Can anyone comment on that?
Just wondering for your buzz roll variation if you would think of keeping the accents as taps only? This is typically how closed rolls are played in pipe band drumming. We almost never play an accented buzz like you are suggesting in your variation but use taps instead. The open roll also is used rarely and instead you will see closed rolls with taps all over the place. Closed seven and thirteen stroke rolls along with hand to hand closed five stroke rolls are pretty much basic for us pipe band drummers. There are many other closed roll variations as well which incorporate triplet based buzz patterns. Just check out some videos with pipe band drum corps and you will quickly see what I mean. Which makes me wonder, has anyone seen closed rolls with this type of tap approach ever used in the rudimental drumming style such as in the DCI corps or other rudimental corps in the USA? There are so many videos of these awesome corps that I have watched but I can't say that I have seen this type of technique used by them. I find it odd because they have some really great things that they play but the closed roll has hardly been explored to the extent you see in pipe bands. Drum tensions and Kevlar heads are not the reason. Anyone care to comment?
Rolly wrote:Just wondering for your buzz roll variation if you would think of keeping the accents as taps only? This is typically how closed rolls are played in pipe band drumming. We almost never play an accented buzz like you are suggesting in your variation but use taps instead. The open roll also is used rarely and instead you will see closed rolls with taps all over the place. Closed seven and thirteen stroke rolls along with hand to hand closed five stroke rolls are pretty much basic for us pipe band drummers. There are many other closed roll variations as well which incorporate triplet based buzz patterns. Just check out some videos with pipe band drum corps and you will quickly see what I mean. Which makes me wonder, has anyone seen closed rolls with this type of tap approach ever used in the rudimental drumming style such as in the DCI corps or other rudimental corps in the USA? There are so many videos of these awesome corps that I have watched but I can't say that I have seen this type of technique used by them. I find it odd because they have some really great things that they play but the closed roll has hardly been explored to the extent you see in pipe bands. Drum tensions and Kevlar heads are not the reason. Anyone care to comment?
You do the variations however you like, this is just my preferred way. You can make the buzzes all taps and the tap roll variation all rolls. Heck, you could even add some flams, cheeses, flam drags, flam fives, etc. As far as your second question goes, I have no idea.
Rolly wrote:Just wondering for your buzz roll variation if you would think of keeping the accents as taps only? This is typically how closed rolls are played in pipe band drumming. We almost never play an accented buzz like you are suggesting in your variation but use taps instead. The open roll also is used rarely and instead you will see closed rolls with taps all over the place. Closed seven and thirteen stroke rolls along with hand to hand closed five stroke rolls are pretty much basic for us pipe band drummers. There are many other closed roll variations as well which incorporate triplet based buzz patterns. Just check out some videos with pipe band drum corps and you will quickly see what I mean. Which makes me wonder, has anyone seen closed rolls with this type of tap approach ever used in the rudimental drumming style such as in the DCI corps or other rudimental corps in the USA? There are so many videos of these awesome corps that I have watched but I can't say that I have seen this type of technique used by them. I find it odd because they have some really great things that they play but the closed roll has hardly been explored to the extent you see in pipe bands. Drum tensions and Kevlar heads are not the reason. Anyone care to comment?
There was BK this past season. Although it was clearly meant to emulate pipe drumming.
I think there are a few reasons why you don't see much closed stuff in DCI. First off, there's just a stylistic difference. Closed rolls have a very thick sound and could sound out of place in a drum corps setting. And they are used, they just aren't over used. Now you may say, but open rolls are used all the time! Yes, but open rolls are more of a way of playing rhythms while closed rolls provide a different sound. Some other reasons may be that it's harder to make them uniform and it also might be a little hard to make it through a whole drum corps show if it's packed with dense buzz passages. And with this last point I hope I don't come off the wrong way. Pipe drumming is cool. But it tends to be pretty dirty. I think that's just a result of different values. In other words I think pipe drummers put other aspects of musicality further ahead of clarity than do drum corps. So for pipe bands, maybe closed stuff is a better idea than a bunch of dirty open rolls.
Thanks for providing a video clip - there are a few bars of closed rolls in there. The sound quality does sound heavy and choked in that example so I can see why you would think that closed rolls could sound out of place if that is what you have been hearing. The closed roll execution needs to be smoother for it to sound better in that sample. There is a different pressure and finger control needed to make that smooth roll happen and it isn't happening there. A little too much finger pressure on the stick and you end up deadening the stick's ability to buzz on the playing surface. Not enough finger pressure, and your rolls sound sloppy. I would suspect that those drummers' hands are gripping the stick too tightly as though they were trying to control fast diddles. It won't work for closed rolls.
I think that you could find dirty drumming in any style but to say that pipe band drumming is dirty in general tells me that you haven't heard any good corps yet. Depending on where you are from and your experience and exposure to pipe band drumming, I can understand you making that kind of statement. I have played in top corps, and believe me, we don't play dirty. Clean playing and a uniform, excellent technique across the snare line in pipe band drumming is no different from what you try to do with your style of music.
Rolly wrote:Thanks for providing a video clip - there are a few bars of closed rolls in there. The sound quality does sound heavy and choked in that example so I can see why you would think that closed rolls could sound out of place if that is what you have been hearing. The closed roll execution needs to be smoother for it to sound better in that sample. There is a different pressure and finger control needed to make that smooth roll happen and it isn't happening there. A little too much finger pressure on the stick and you end up deadening the stick's ability to buzz on the playing surface. Not enough finger pressure, and your rolls sound sloppy. I would suspect that those drummers' hands are gripping the stick too tightly as though they were trying to control fast diddles. It won't work for closed rolls.
I think that you could find dirty drumming in any style but to say that pipe band drumming is dirty in general tells me that you haven't heard any good corps yet. Depending on where you are from and your experience and exposure to pipe band drumming, I can understand you making that kind of statement. I have played in top corps, and believe me, we don't play dirty. Clean playing and a uniform, excellent technique across the snare line in pipe band drumming is no different from what you try to do with your style of music.
The main issue with that video is not the dirt, its the lack of notes on bottom.
The Cavaliers had this in their 2007 (correct me if I'm wrong) Green Beats booklet. The way they did it was: buzzes, tap buzzes, two-heights, tap rolls, and then two-heights again to finish. They had a 28 measure pattern and I try to do it with Vic Firth Magnums. It takes a while, but definitely works your chops.
dhssnare wrote:The Cavaliers had this in their 2007 (correct me if I'm wrong) Green Beats booklet. The way they did it was: buzzes, tap buzzes, two-heights, tap rolls, and then two-heights again to finish. They had a 28 measure pattern and I try to do it with Vic Firth Magnums. It takes a while, but definitely works your chops.
You are correct. Here's the introduction into the exercise from the packet:
"This is a traditional rudimental drum solo that may date back as far as the 18th century. Every drummer should know it. For our purposes today, it’s a great exercise to build consistency and chops. We primarily use this as a roll exercise, so be sure to focus on flow, strong and even roll quality, and accurate diddle rhythms at slow and fast speeds.
In 2006, we played a few variations of this which included the full length of the piece (including repeats) with Buzzes (all strokes buzzed), Tap Buzzes (all unaccented notes buzzed - accents are played with single hit), Two-heights (simple accents and taps, no rolls or buzzes), and Tap Rolls (accents are single hits; everything else is open roll).
Running this full sequence can take a long time - which is part of the point. Keep a good consistency going with your rhythm and push your chops. Tenors and basses should simply play this in unison. Rhythmic accuracy and sound quality are the focus here rather than splits."
dhssnare wrote:The Cavaliers had this in their 2007 (correct me if I'm wrong) Green Beats booklet. The way they did it was: buzzes, tap buzzes, two-heights, tap rolls, and then two-heights again to finish. They had a 28 measure pattern and I try to do it with Vic Firth Magnums. It takes a while, but definitely works your chops.
You are correct. Here's the introduction into the exercise from the packet:
"This is a traditional rudimental drum solo that may date back as far as the 18th century. Every drummer should know it. For our purposes today, it’s a great exercise to build consistency and chops. We primarily use this as a roll exercise, so be sure to focus on flow, strong and even roll quality, and accurate diddle rhythms at slow and fast speeds.
In 2006, we played a few variations of this which included the full length of the piece (including repeats) with Buzzes (all strokes buzzed), Tap Buzzes (all unaccented notes buzzed - accents are played with single hit), Two-heights (simple accents and taps, no rolls or buzzes), and Tap Rolls (accents are single hits; everything else is open roll).
Running this full sequence can take a long time - which is part of the point. Keep a good consistency going with your rhythm and push your chops. Tenors and basses should simply play this in unison. Rhythmic accuracy and sound quality are the focus here rather than splits."
That's it! That book was so much fun to play through.
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