left arm tense on triplet diddles

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Jacob_Kendrick Offline
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left arm tense on triplet diddles

Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 5:13 pm



When I play faster triplet rolls, starting around 160-170 bpm, the only way for me to play clean is to put a lot of tension in my forearm and squeeze the stick between my thumb and index finger. I feel like this is the wrong way to be doing it. Also, I've been told that i should be using more wrist turn. Right now, basically the only motion is a pumping motion in my forearm. I just can't seem to get my wrist to rotate in my left hand. Is it normal to use all arm and no wrist for fast double strokes?


schorsquatch Offline
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Re: left arm tense on triplet diddles

Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 4:19 am



At the higher tempo, it is natural to squeeze down on the stick... basically, you are asking the stick to move faster than what it would naturally rebound, so you have to start clamping down on the fingers and pumping with the arms.

Depending on your skill level and actual technique, you should be able to continue to build strength to improve your control at these tempos. First... You want to be able to maximize your hand-to-hand control... in other words, if the right hand is out of sync with height/velocity and controlling the diddles, its not going to sound good. Second, you want to be able to play in sync with the rest of the drumline. So, you have to benchmark your playing against that.

Chop-out exercises are a good thing to work.* What I have found is to work your way up to you maximum tempo in increments. When you reach your max, purposefully over-extend by 5 or 10 bpm for a few reps, then back it off to your max. By constantly pushing beyond your tempo limit, you will find it easier to control at your maximum tempo, and also be able to consistently work up to faster tempos in a controlled, methodical fashion.

*Edit: By chop-out exercises, I would recommend your roll patterns or roll partials, but repeating continuously to get to the burn. If your roll pattern is 16 counts, add repeats to get to 32 or 48. Or if you're just old fashioned like me, use "Three Camps"

Lastly, remember this is normal. Triplet rolls at 160 is equivalent to 16th note rolls at 120. By 170 (triplets) you are pushing 128 (16ths) which is starting to get pretty quick. Good luck!
Without a metronome its not drumming, its just hacking.


VoteLobster Offline
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Re: left arm tense on triplet diddles

Posted: Thu May 04, 2017 2:54 pm



Jacob_Kendrick wrote:
Mon May 01, 2017 5:13 pm
Is it normal to use all arm and no wrist for fast double strokes?
Yeah, that's pretty normal. It's also a chops thing. Wrist can allow you to get more height/power in your rolls, but as you get faster it's normal to go from wrist to arm pump. Where you should find that balance depends on who's teaching you - some groups use a lot of arm while others aim for mainly wrist.

Something to think about... if you're rolling high (around 9" or more), and you're locking the wrist using just arm pump, you'll get a different timbre because the bead is striking the head at a different angle. Below 9" it doesn't make that much of a difference IMO. It's not often you play fast rolls really high (unless you're Star 93)
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MrSirEric Offline
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Re: left arm tense on triplet diddles

Posted: Fri May 05, 2017 11:48 am



VoteLobster wrote:
Thu May 04, 2017 2:54 pm
It's not often you play fast rolls really high (unless you're Star 93)
Or Cadets 8)
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Re: left arm tense on triplet diddles

Posted: Fri May 05, 2017 11:51 am



schorsquatch wrote:
Tue May 02, 2017 4:19 am
Triplet rolls at 160 is equivalent to 16th note rolls at 120. By 170 (triplets) you are pushing 128 (16ths) which is starting to get pretty quick. Good luck!
I agree with everything you said previously, but triplet rolls at 160 is equal to 16ths at about 107. 16ths at 120 is equal to triplets at 180.
Cedar Park High School
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'16 - '18: Snare

University of North Texas
'19: Snare

"I can't sit down long enough to absorb any kind of learning." ~Buddy Rich


MrSirEric Offline
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Re: left arm tense on triplet diddles

Posted: Fri May 05, 2017 11:57 am



Using more forearm at higher roll tempos is absolutely normal. It takes an impressive amount of strength to wrist out rolls at anything above about 100 (for 16th rolls), and even approaching 100 still takes a lot of chops. The only thing I'd really recommend for you, technique-wise, is to work on relaxing the hand and incorporating back fingers a little bit into the roll. Not using the back fingers to stroke the rolls out, nobody has the strength for that, but just using a light touch from the back fingers in place of squeezing with your fulcrum. Peter Cannon described it really well to our line a few years ago. He came and taught us for a day and one thing he said over and over again was "contact without pressure". Just having those fingers there, while still keeping the hand relaxed, will take a lot of the pressure off your fulcrum and allow you to play faster, since you won't be squeezing or tensing up.
Cedar Park High School
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'16 - '18: Snare

University of North Texas
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schorsquatch Offline
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Re: left arm tense on triplet diddles

Posted: Fri May 05, 2017 12:29 pm



MrSirEric wrote:
Fri May 05, 2017 11:51 am
schorsquatch wrote:
Tue May 02, 2017 4:19 am
Triplet rolls at 160 is equivalent to 16th note rolls at 120. By 170 (triplets) you are pushing 128 (16ths) which is starting to get pretty quick. Good luck!
I agree with everything you said previously, but triplet rolls at 160 is equal to 16ths at about 107. 16ths at 120 is equal to triplets at 180.
?

Triplets at 160 gives you 480 strokes per minute.
Sixteenths at 120 gives you 480 strokes per minute.

The conversion is a ratio either 3/4 or 4/3, depending on the direction you're going.

Or did I miss a memo?
Without a metronome its not drumming, its just hacking.


MrSirEric Offline
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Re: left arm tense on triplet diddles

Posted: Fri May 05, 2017 1:24 pm



schorsquatch wrote:
Fri May 05, 2017 12:29 pm
MrSirEric wrote:
Fri May 05, 2017 11:51 am
schorsquatch wrote:
Tue May 02, 2017 4:19 am
Triplet rolls at 160 is equivalent to 16th note rolls at 120. By 170 (triplets) you are pushing 128 (16ths) which is starting to get pretty quick. Good luck!
I agree with everything you said previously, but triplet rolls at 160 is equal to 16ths at about 107. 16ths at 120 is equal to triplets at 180.
?

Triplets at 160 gives you 480 strokes per minute.
Sixteenths at 120 gives you 480 strokes per minute.

The conversion is a ratio either 3/4 or 4/3, depending on the direction you're going.

Or did I miss a memo?
My bad, not sure exactly where I went wrong there. For some reason I was thinking of a 2/3 ratio rather than a 4/3
Cedar Park High School
'15: Bass 4
'16 - '18: Snare

University of North Texas
'19: Snare

"I can't sit down long enough to absorb any kind of learning." ~Buddy Rich


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