Marty Hurley Technique

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shyguy Offline
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Marty Hurley Technique

Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:14 pm



I`ve been watching this video all day
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1qvNNiQSG8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I want my playing style to be exactly like Marty`s *the older gentleman that plays first* I`ve been researching his style for years
I know he curls his pinky back but can anyone explain what he`s doing with arm motions, how he plays with so much damn power, further explanation on right hand and left hand grips.. anything.
Please guys, give me some input!!


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Re: Marty Hurley Technique

Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:53 pm



No one is going to be able to explain his technique better than he can. I'm pretty sure he's from the New Orleans area, try to contact him and schedule a lesson.
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shyguy Offline
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Re: Marty Hurley Technique

Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:54 pm



DrewAnderson wrote:No one is going to be able to explain his technique better than he can. I'm pretty sure he's from the New Orleans area, try to contact him and schedule a lesson.
He is from New Orleans and I had one lesson from him 2 years ago and learned so much in one day it was hard to retain some things..


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Re: Marty Hurley Technique

Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:58 am



ahhh yes, the Marty Hurley tucked pinky. That is how I was first taught (not by him tho). The arm motion is Moeller technique...or at least influenced by that.
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Blackinferno15 Offline
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Re: Marty Hurley Technique

Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:06 pm



well from what ive learned if you want power be aggressive. let your arms move (dont force them to move. pretty much like teal and crown.
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HHS_snare Offline
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Re: Marty Hurley Technique

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:59 pm



Be as relaxed as possible, and lets your arms move with upstrokes.
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Re: Marty Hurley Technique

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:58 pm



Hi Shyguy,

I apologize for the length of this post. I had tried sending it to you as a PM but it didn't seem to go through.

My name is Greg Gentry and I'm in Boston. I have never marched in drum corps but I have a lot of familiarity with Marty's style through my acquaintance with some of his students and some of his own teacher's students.

Marty was taught rudimental drumming by a guy named Bobby Thompson. The curled pinky grip is actually a grip developed by Bobby Thompson and his fellow snare drummer Les Parks. Both guys were members of the Sons of Liberty fife and drum corps out of New York several decades ago.

The style of drumming they used was developed in the Connecticut River Valley in the first third of the twentieth century. The fife and drum influence on modern rudimental snare drumming is quite pronounced, although much of it is not well-known these days.

The chief exponent of the Connecticut River Valley style was a man named Earl Sturtze, who is widely regarded as one of the most influential snare drum teachers of the last century. His line of influence extends through the Sons of Liberty, Frank A.rsenault (if you know who that is) of the 1960s Cavaliers, and eventually was taught to guys like Marty Hurley and Dennis DeLucia, both of whom studied with Bobby Thompson. Marty brought it to the Phantom Regiment, while Dennis toned the style down a lot and used the resulting technique to teach the legendary Bayonne Bridgemen.

The Sturtze style is NOT the same as Moeller and the arm motion is in no way related to what Moeller taught. In fact, historically, although Moeller and Sturtze were contemporaries, Sturtze drummers beat Moeller drummers in almost every competition back here in on the East Coast, in areas like NJ, NY, PA, CT, etc. Funny historical note: Moeller was not known as possessing a very clean style, and when he was a judge for snare drumming competitions in the 1930s, he was always made the timing judge, to make sure tempo was good and people didn't run over time. Moeller was never an execution or technique judge in these competitions. Sturtze, on the other hand, was one of the best-known technique judges.

Here's a brief description of the style differences between Sturtze and Moeller:

Use of Arms

Both men taught use of arm motion but in radically different ways. I'm sure you know the Moeller style is produced by a whipping motion that begins in the shoulder and flicks all the way down to the hands and fingers. This does produce a big sound, but the older snare drummers who competed at a high level knew it was an inconsistent approach to the instrument because the sound the sticks made was different within the inner beats or taps, due to how the stick was moving across the drumhead.

Sturtze motion, on the other hand, was produced by bending the wrist back and bringing the elbow INTO the side of the body. When the stick is snapped back down the elbow moves OUT away from the body. The opposite happens in Moeller. Mechanically, Sturtze uses a better form of leverage which allows for total consistency of taps during accent patterns. You can see it in the video of Marty (if it's the one I'm thinking of). Moeller: elbows are whipped. Sturtze: elbows move in and out away from the body--in as the stick travels up, out as the stick travels down. Try playing a paradiddle using the Sturtze arm motion and you'll see just how powerful and consistent the sound is. The biggest advantage from this sort of Sturtze style is the power in the accent, because the weight of the forearm is involved. Very different from just using the wrists for accenting.

Grip

The Moeller right hand grip is legendary, even though almost no one uses it anymore. The stick was held by the little finger and allowed to "play through" the hand, the way a fencer would wield his foil. Chapin talks about this grip in his video. The effect is to move the fulcrum to the back of the hand, around the ring and pinky fingers. This assists greatly in making the whip without inordinate shock to the hand. But the control of taps becomes a lot more difficult.

Sturtze right hand grip is pretty similar to what was used in DCI almost exclusively until very recently. The fulcrum was the thumb and index finger. If you know who Ken Mazur is (student of Marty in the 1970s), he says the importance of keeping the fulcrum at the front of the hand the way Sturtze did is that it allows for better control of interior notes and grace note placement. Guys like Frank A.rsenault had superior fulcrums, where they actually squeezed the stick, something Mazur strenuously advocates.

In the left hand, Moeller's grip isn't all that different from what many people use today. It's loose and relaxed and the thumb is over the top of the stick.

Sturtze taught a similar grip in the left, but guys like Bobby Thompson and Les Parks, who I mentioned earlier, took this grip and made important modifications to it. They wrapped the index finger around the top of the stick and derived all their power from that finger as opposed to the thumb. If you try it you'll find the index finger doesn't tire out nearly as quickly as the weaker thumb does. Most noticeably, these guys developed what came to be known as the Bobby Thompson grip, with the pinky boxed or curled tightly toward the palm. There was a mechanical reason for doing this. The best description again comes from Ken Mazur (an acquaintance of mine for many years and the guy I learned all of this from): the curled pinky acts like a pendulum; it helps turn the hand down towards the drum. Try it and you'll find it's true. And they always rested the left stick in between the knuckles of the ring finger as opposed to up near the cuticle like you see it today. This takes a lot of getting used to, and the grip can feel very awkward for a long time. But this is the famous grip Marty got from Bobby and took with him to Phantom. And the Sturtze arm motion.

Check out the way all the guys in the video break down the double stroke roll: sticks pointing up, elbows in--classic Sturtze. Notice also that the second note of the roll only comes up halfway when accelerating the roll. Sturtze taught that from the beginning, as opposed to, say, velocity strokes, where you try to rebound the stick back up high for both beats. Sturtze knew that as the roll got faster, the secondary would inevitably come down in height, so he taught guys to play that way from the beginning.

One final thing the descendants of Sturtze gave us was what's called the powertrain or "S-out" in the right hand. This is where the right wrist is c.ocked towards the outside to make more of a straight line with the arm, with the wrist acting like a hinge. Les Parks gave us that. People didn't used to drum that way. Look at really old pictures and photos and you'll see the universal style in ancient times was where the wrist extended straight out from the hand, and the stick was almost at a right angle to the arm. The right hand used to rotate like the left--you can see it in Moeller's book. Les Parks found out that's not efficient for power and speed, so he taught the Sons of Liberty to play with his new powertrain style, and they became unbeatable as a drum corps. As Mazur says, they had the physics of superior technique all figured out.

Well, I've given you a lot to read! The Sturtze Book is still available, by the way, and Les Parks' snare book as well, although Les' book is harder to find. You can find Sturtze by looking up Lancraft Fife and Drum Corps in Connecticut. Check them out online. They have an entire room of their organization named after Sturtze. He truly was greatly influential.

One final and frankly amazing thing about Bobby Thompson, and this is NOT made up! When students would complain about how hard it was to develop control, Bobby would sometimes break out a bucket of water and drum right on the surface. He could play everything on water and it was apparently just shocking to see. And one more note about Ken Mazur (DCI champ 1976, beat Rob Carson). When Ken was a technician for Phantom in the 1980s, it was said that when he came up and drummed on a guy's drum, the drum itself felt much heavier, he was putting that much force through the head. That's the power of Sturtze!

Hope you found this informative!

Also go to http://www.rudimentaldrumming.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and check under articles for a superb history of drumming from Ken Mazur--"Who Took The Drum Out of Drum Corps?" You may not agree with everything he says, but Ken's knowledge is incredible and you'll find a lot of the same things I gave you here, although most of what I know comes from corresponding with Ken directly. Ken is in the process of writing a comprehensive history of rudimental drumming. He has shared parts of it with me and I really hope one day he can have it published. The sheer historical value would be unmatched. A true labor of love that's taken him decades.

Take care,
Greg Gentry


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Re: Marty Hurley Technique

Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:41 pm



^ that is the most epic post ever to be posted on the net work of webs.
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Re: Marty Hurley Technique

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:21 pm



probably the most important post I have ever seen on this site. We need to sticky this and put it on the front page...
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Re: Marty Hurley Technique

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:45 pm



sxetnrdrmr wrote:probably the most important post I have ever seen on this site. We need to sticky this and put it on the front page...
Agreed. My mind is blown by all of that information I was unaware of.


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Re: Marty Hurley Technique

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:39 pm



omg lol jizzed
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shyguy Offline
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Re: Marty Hurley Technique

Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 4:18 pm



This is amazing information man, I can't thank you enough. Hopefully this becomes a sticky to help out anyone who wants to know more about this legendary grip!!


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Re: Marty Hurley Technique

Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:20 am



Listen to Mr. GGentry's post, that is very good information. That technique is rarely used anymore and is slowly dying off. With all this new age mumbo-jumbo, people are concerned with the wrong things. At this rate, in 50 years you won't be seeing a decent rudimental drummer.


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Re: Marty Hurley Technique

Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:21 am



BrydonJ wrote:Listen to Mr. GGentry's post, that is very good information. That technique is rarely used anymore and is slowly dying off. With all this new age mumbo-jumbo, people are concerned with the wrong things. At this rate, in 50 years you won't be seeing a decent rudimental drummer.
I completely and full heartedly disagree. Just because technique is changing doesn't mean players are getting worse. We're playing stuff now that even 20 years ago would have been viewed as impossible to play cleanly in a line setting. Advances in technique, style, and the drums themselves are allowing players to play longer, faster, harder books, and that's making better rudimental drummers than ever before.
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BrydonJ Offline
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Re: Marty Hurley Technique

Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:02 pm



And that's fine, I am not pressing my opinion on you. To each his own. But I've not seen a drumline from the 90's playing less than lines are now.


shyguy Offline
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Re: Marty Hurley Technique

Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:27 pm



I already use the curled pinky technique, I just wanted further information on it. It is complicated to learn at first but if you master it you will play with alot more power, have better control and not wear out as fast.


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Re: Marty Hurley Technique

Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:49 pm



Right, and many people use it without realizing that is in fact what they're doing


shyguy Offline
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Re: Marty Hurley Technique

Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:09 am



If anything, it gets ridiculed for being *an outdated technique* sad to say but I see it happen all the time. No one even gives it a chance. Only thing to do at that point is show them an old Phantom Regiment video or Marty performing a solo haha.


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Re: Marty Hurley Technique

Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:51 am



I agree, and I believe it's a very valid technique, just not "the" technique.


shyguy Offline
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Re: Marty Hurley Technique

Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:04 am



Well it is good to know multiple grips for different playing situations, but this grip is definitely one to learn.


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Re: Marty Hurley Technique

Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:02 am



ottomagne wrote:
BrydonJ wrote:Listen to Mr. GGentry's post, that is very good information. That technique is rarely used anymore and is slowly dying off. With all this new age mumbo-jumbo, people are concerned with the wrong things. At this rate, in 50 years you won't be seeing a decent rudimental drummer.
I completely and full heartedly disagree. Just because technique is changing doesn't mean players are getting worse. We're playing stuff now that even 20 years ago would have been viewed as impossible to play cleanly in a line setting. Advances in technique, style, and the drums themselves are allowing players to play longer, faster, harder books, and that's making better rudimental drummers than ever before.
Rolltide.


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Re: Marty Hurley Technique

Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:40 pm



Bustamento wrote:
ottomagne wrote:
BrydonJ wrote:Listen to Mr. GGentry's post, that is very good information. That technique is rarely used anymore and is slowly dying off. With all this new age mumbo-jumbo, people are concerned with the wrong things. At this rate, in 50 years you won't be seeing a decent rudimental drummer.
I completely and full heartedly disagree. Just because technique is changing doesn't mean players are getting worse. We're playing stuff now that even 20 years ago would have been viewed as impossible to play cleanly in a line setting. Advances in technique, style, and the drums themselves are allowing players to play longer, faster, harder books, and that's making better rudimental drummers than ever before.
Rolltide.

No use fighting about it, this is the internet, you will never win.


shyguy Offline
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Re: Marty Hurley Technique

Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:12 am



The hell is rolltide?


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Re: Marty Hurley Technique

Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:56 am



shyguy wrote:The hell is rolltide?
:O
youtube the Rolltide espn commercial..
I was just joking around though.


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