What if Cannabis Cured Cancer?

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lesterroyer Offline
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Re: What if Cannabis Cured Cancer?

Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:10 am



Madjical wrote:
lesterroyer wrote:If it really cured cancer, then there would be a way to make it into a pill that wouldn't really give you the unneeded side effects. End of story. Using this to support your bad decisions is stupid. In my opinion, its immoral. It's partially what it does to you immediately, but more of what it does to you in the long term. I've seen super motivated people waste all their potential on pot. It's one of the worst things to ever see with your friends. Anyone that supports that lifestyle is not heading in the right direction. As for those few who can manage smoking and maintaining a healthy, motivated lifestyle while smoking on a frequent occasion, its like those that can handle drinking. I don't support either, but it doesn't bug me when I can't tell. thats what it comes down to.
I'm not super offended or thrown off by this statement, but it's fairly contradicting. I support it, but I am not a user. I'm currently working for an aerospace company and have an extremely promising future, working on a masters in aerospace engineering. Your statement is extremely bold to be generalized to that extent.

My friend is a cannabis user, who is currently out in California helping develop satellites, and attends a top ten university, and holds a steady 3.8+ every semester in Electrical Engineering. I have multiple friends who attend universities that range anywhere from top 10-50 in the nation, in all different fields, who are excelling and use cannabis regularly. At the university I attend, a few of my good friends use cannabis once a week, and all have 3.5+ GPA's and have extremely promising future's with internships and job offers. Personally, your argument is invalid and generalized to the public with no evidence or facts.

And to be honest, if it really cured cancer, it would most definitely not be made into a pill that wouldn't supply you with any unnecessary side effects. Medical companies make way to much money that help regulate the economy to give up that easy. Even if it did, it would have to go through years of testing before even being tested on human subjects, let alone being used on humans on a regular basis. It's not as easy as "this works, let's do some trial and error." These are people's lives, not a game. I'm sure you understand that, though.

More often than not, you won't be able to tell who uses it and who doesn't. Those who do use it are not always going to be unmotivated and lackadaisical. That's a common misconception that has been displayed in ads to make you think that it is the only effect. I've had extremely in depth discussions and debates with those who are under the influence of cannabis about string theory, relativity, and more recently, the higgs boson particle. All coherent, all presentable arguments, all reliable.

Once you've spent enough time around responsible users, it's easy to see that this substance isn't nearly as harmful as cigarettes, alcohol, or other illegal substances. I would much rather hold a conversation with one of my peers who is using cannabis than one who has been using alcohol.
I can agree with this. Alcohol is absolutely terrible. I don't support uses of any substance. Most of my reasoning is because it has affected my life.
I'm not contradictory. With most of the people I've known that start smoking, generally around the first years of high school, they've turned their lives around for the negative. In my area, its known to have all the potheads, so I've seen it affect a lot of people. I've seen a few people that you wouldn't be able to tell by their lifestyle that they smoke, but its very rare. You might be one of those intelligent people, which means you hang out in circles of other intelligent people, making it more likely to come across these rarities. The part that bugs me about using substances isn't as much the fact that they are trying to escape from reality, but more that they are letting a substance control their life. The whole "weed doesn't impair judgement" thing is crap. A friend of mine killed himself and a passenger in a car wreck while under the influence. Sure, it may not be as bad as some of the other poisons, but its still a poison. You can't seriously defend marijuana being a healthy decision, or even alternative. I'm sorry if I sound bigoted or judgmental, it's not how I'm trying to come across, I just have a lot of resentment for it. Perhaps where you live, things work differently, which is great, but I've never seen any good come from it.
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Re: What if Cannabis Cured Cancer?

Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:51 am



Different experiences, different opinions. I'm sorry for your loss, that's definitely not something that you ever forget. I understand where you are coming from, and I respect your opinion.

Like I said, I'm not a user, I just know many people who are bound to be successful and know how to manage it properly.


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Re: What if Cannabis Cured Cancer?

Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:20 pm



Madjical wrote:Different experiences, different opinions. I'm sorry for your loss, that's definitely not something that you ever forget. I understand where you are coming from, and I respect your opinion.

Like I said, I'm not a user, I just know many people who are bound to be successful and know how to manage it properly.
Thank you. Also, I didn't really understand why they wouldn't be able to come up with a pill or some sort of way to bring whatever it is that kills cancer without having the side effects. I'm pretty positive it would be possible and a lot more likely to become legal.
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Re: What if Cannabis Cured Cancer?

Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:21 pm



It is most certainly not a poison. I too am sorry for your loss, I recently lost a close friend too, and driving while under the influence of anything is not a good idea.

I implore you to watch at least part of the video I posted to start this topic. It shows exactly how THC, the part of weed that gets you high (and is naturally received in your body) is healthy for you-it's not just a blanket statement, there are scientists and experts telling you EXACTLY how it is a helpful plant. Part of this is taking over cancer cells and telling them to commit suicide. Weed is not at all a poison. Taking weed and making it into a synthetic pill like Marinol that does have other side affects is a worse kind of poison. The only reason to synthesize something that works naturally is so medical companies can patent it and sell it.
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Re: What if Cannabis Cured Cancer?

Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:12 pm



hotbeats645 wrote:It is most certainly not a poison. I too am sorry for your loss, I recently lost a close friend too, and driving while under the influence of anything is not a good idea.

I implore you to watch at least part of the video I posted to start this topic. It shows exactly how THC, the part of weed that gets you high (and is naturally received in your body) is healthy for you-it's not just a blanket statement, there are scientists and experts telling you EXACTLY how it is a helpful plant. Part of this is taking over cancer cells and telling them to commit suicide. Weed is not at all a poison. Taking weed and making it into a synthetic pill like Marinol that does have other side affects is a worse kind of poison. The only reason to synthesize something that works naturally is so medical companies can patent it and sell it.
Putting smoke in your lungs is never good for you, no matter what is in the smoke.
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Re: What if Cannabis Cured Cancer?

Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:51 pm



lesterroyer wrote:
hotbeats645 wrote:It is most certainly not a poison. I too am sorry for your loss, I recently lost a close friend too, and driving while under the influence of anything is not a good idea.

I implore you to watch at least part of the video I posted to start this topic. It shows exactly how THC, the part of weed that gets you high (and is naturally received in your body) is healthy for you-it's not just a blanket statement, there are scientists and experts telling you EXACTLY how it is a helpful plant. Part of this is taking over cancer cells and telling them to commit suicide. Weed is not at all a poison. Taking weed and making it into a synthetic pill like Marinol that does have other side affects is a worse kind of poison. The only reason to synthesize something that works naturally is so medical companies can patent it and sell it.
Putting smoke in your lungs is never good for you, no matter what is in the smoke.
I seriously can't say it any more. Watch the video. They talk about this. Seriously. This video is not a bunch of stoners making a loose case. It's a bunch of scientists and doctors who have done research on the stuff for 15 years. They know way more about it than you and I. It's seriously one of the first things they talk about. Smoke in your lungs isn't good for you. They explain studies than show no connection between heavy marijuana smokers and lung cancer that were done over 25 year periods. You can't hold onto these beliefs when the actual scientific facts are presented to you in a video that you're not even giving a chance.

I understand why TVO left without watching, because he can't stand to be wrong. He always preaches about science in his religious threads and how people never respond to his points, and yet he does the same thing on threads where he is actually questioned and can't think of anything better to do. Don't be like him.
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Re:

Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:26 pm



Cannabis can be used with a vaporiser, which isn't harmful on the lungs
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Re: What if Cannabis Cured Cancer?

Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:29 pm



hotbeats645 wrote:
lesterroyer wrote:
hotbeats645 wrote:It is most certainly not a poison. I too am sorry for your loss, I recently lost a close friend too, and driving while under the influence of anything is not a good idea.

I implore you to watch at least part of the video I posted to start this topic. It shows exactly how THC, the part of weed that gets you high (and is naturally received in your body) is healthy for you-it's not just a blanket statement, there are scientists and experts telling you EXACTLY how it is a helpful plant. Part of this is taking over cancer cells and telling them to commit suicide. Weed is not at all a poison. Taking weed and making it into a synthetic pill like Marinol that does have other side affects is a worse kind of poison. The only reason to synthesize something that works naturally is so medical companies can patent it and sell it.
Putting smoke in your lungs is never good for you, no matter what is in the smoke.
I seriously can't say it any more. Watch the video. They talk about this. Seriously. This video is not a bunch of stoners making a loose case. It's a bunch of scientists and doctors who have done research on the stuff for 15 years. They know way more about it than you and I. It's seriously one of the first things they talk about. Smoke in your lungs isn't good for you. They explain studies than show no connection between heavy marijuana smokers and lung cancer that were done over 25 year periods. You can't hold onto these beliefs when the actual scientific facts are presented to you in a video that you're not even giving a chance.

I understand why TVO left without watching, because he can't stand to be wrong. He always preaches about science in his religious threads and how people never respond to his points, and yet he does the same thing on threads where he is actually questioned and can't think of anything better to do. Don't be like him.


Talking about me after I leave? Shame shame. Time to grow up, no?
I didn't leave because I was "wrong". I stated my opinion, and watched a bunch of dopers who are not using marijuana for medical purposes get mad about it and try to use the sickly as an excuse for why cannabis should be legal. You do not have cancer. You use it to get high only. You're a druggie. lol None of these statements are wrong. Honestly, I think it shows a lack of taste to use someone who is actually dying of cancer as buffer for your argument (in which you're trying to support a bad habit that many middle schoolers use). I tried to have a civilized discussion with you dopers but it just turned into people calling me of "small intelligence" and "bad arguments" (even though he compared smoking marijuana to playing drums as a support for his argument a few sentences later). I've been banned enough times on this forum and I've been told the next one will be for a month or so and I can already see where this discussion would lead me with you people. Honestly, as drummers I would think you'd all be trying to avoid Marijuana, as it's been shown over time to decrease your reflexes.


Here's a fact sheet for you. Enjoy debunking it. I'm out of the convo once again. Just came back to defend myself from the mad stoner.

http://www.well.com/user/woa/fspot.htm
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Re: What if Cannabis Cured Cancer?

Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:21 pm



TVOham wrote:
hotbeats645 wrote:
lesterroyer wrote:


Talking about me after I leave? Shame shame. Time to grow up, no?
I didn't leave because I was "wrong". I stated my opinion, and watched a bunch of dopers who are not using marijuana for medical purposes get mad about it and try to use the sickly as an excuse for why cannabis should be legal. You do not have cancer. You use it to get high only. You're a druggie. lol None of these statements are wrong. Honestly, I think it shows a lack of taste to use someone who is actually dying of cancer as buffer for your argument (in which you're trying to support a bad habit that many middle schoolers use). I tried to have a civilized discussion with you dopers but it just turned into people calling me of "small intelligence" and "bad arguments" (even though he compared smoking marijuana to playing drums as a support for his argument a few sentences later). I've been banned enough times on this forum and I've been told the next one will be for a month or so and I can already see where this discussion would lead me with you people. Honestly, as drummers I would think you'd all be trying to avoid Marijuana, as it's been shown over time to decrease your reflexes.


Here's a fact sheet for you. Enjoy debunking it. I'm out of the convo once again. Just came back to defend myself from the mad stoner.

http://www.well.com/user/woa/fspot.htm
A government paper on Cannabis research during the Reagan administration. hmm.......
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Re: What if Cannabis Cured Cancer?

Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:45 pm



Talking about me after I leave? Shame shame. Time to grow up, no?
I didn't leave because I was "wrong". I stated my opinion, and watched a bunch of dopers who are not using marijuana for medical purposes get mad about it and try to use the sickly as an excuse for why cannabis should be legal. You do not have cancer. You use it to get high only. You're a druggie. lol None of these statements are wrong. Honestly, I think it shows a lack of taste to use someone who is actually dying of cancer as buffer for your argument (in which you're trying to support a bad habit that many middle schoolers use). I tried to have a civilized discussion with you dopers but it just turned into people calling me of "small intelligence" and "bad arguments" (even though he compared smoking marijuana to playing drums as a support for his argument a few sentences later). I've been banned enough times on this forum and I've been told the next one will be for a month or so and I can already see where this discussion would lead me with you people. Honestly, as drummers I would think you'd all be trying to avoid Marijuana, as it's been shown over time to decrease your reflexes.


Here's a fact sheet for you. Enjoy debunking it. I'm out of the convo once again. Just came back to defend myself from the mad stoner.

http://www.well.com/user/woa/fspot.htm
Okay, first thing is first. If you want to have a civilized conversation, the key is to be the bigger man in any situation. So calling other kids "dopers" and "mad stoners" isn't going to help your cause in any way. Even if the statement is true, it's definitely not something you want to resort to. I'm all for a good debate and conversation, if it's kept clean, and above the belt. It's the internet, nobody is actually going to take this to heart. It's ridiculous to think you can change someone's opinion on something so hugely debated and backed by multiple parties with unlimited opinions on a snare drumming forum. It's simply healthy to get your opinion out, and hear others voice their opinion.

Having said that, I looked at your fact sheet. It was interesting. I have a few problems with it though. It uses very vague terms. It doesn't deal in any specifics, and the majority of it isn't factual. Here's an example; "These studies suggest that it is likely that marijuana may cause cancer if used for a number of years." That's not a fact, that's a theory. This sheet uses words like "often" and "believe". Nothing is ever concrete, and no numbers are used. It's too vague to be used as a reliable resource for me. I would need a wide group of individuals, certain percentages, races, sexes, and everything else to believe something like this. It doesn't mention anything other than what scientists "believe". This isn't a fact sheet to me, it's more of a "maybe" sheet.

That, and the fact it was updated over 25 years ago.


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Re:

Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:39 pm



I'm sorry, but this video is not credible.

The first whole minute talks about marijuana increased brain functions. This is crap. California, the state known for making marijuana legal, has between 70%-80% dropout rates. That is about 1 in 4 people. If you have talked to someone who is smarter after they smoke dope, I'd be very suprised.

At 5:15, it show it has precancerous effects to animals, yet they say it has no link to cancer. Then they show it has no connection to it at all, but then say it has effects on it that remove it.

At 7:20, their arguement for schitzophrenia sounds more like a theory than tested fact.

I kinda gave up after 9 minutes or so. Sorry, I did try. This video is pretty bogus. These "studies" just seem either made up, or exaggerated to help a point.

Most of the states passing laws for pro use were also those that voted democrat, being the side that is not only for legalizing in general, but is the political party where all the smokers put their alliegance in hope that they can get their hobby legalized. I'm not trying to bash democrats in any way when I say that, I'm just making an observation.
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Re: Re:

Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:57 am



lesterroyer wrote:I'm sorry, but this video is not credible.

The first whole minute talks about marijuana increased brain functions. This is crap. California, the state known for making marijuana legal, has between 70%-80% dropout rates. That is about 1 in 4 people. If you have talked to someone who is smarter after they smoke dope, I'd be very suprised.

At 5:15, it show it has precancerous effects to animals, yet they say it has no link to cancer. Then they show it has no connection to it at all, but then say it has effects on it that remove it.

At 7:20, their arguement for schitzophrenia sounds more like a theory than tested fact.

I kinda gave up after 9 minutes or so. Sorry, I did try. This video is pretty bogus. These "studies" just seem either made up, or exaggerated to help a point.

Most of the states passing laws for pro use were also those that voted democrat, being the side that is not only for legalizing in general, but is the political party where all the smokers put their alliegance in hope that they can get their hobby legalized. I'm not trying to bash democrats in any way when I say that, I'm just making an observation.
I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here... Was anyone saying that marijuana made people smarter or would fix the public school system? Increased brain functions doesn't mean increased intelligence or problem solving skills. And I really just don't see how the dropout rate is related to any of this. I haven't watched the video (and I probably won't) and I haven't looked at any studies about marijuana's effect on brain function, but I feel like that first bit of your post didn't make sense.
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Re: What if Cannabis Cured Cancer?

Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:41 am



lol at TVO saying weed makes you have slower reflexes as a drummer. have you heard of thomas pridgen? billy cobham? ?ueslove? Elvin? victor lewis? dennis mackrel? the list could literally go on for a day. you've got to be joking. I'm almost 100% sure you're a troll now. I'm not saying smoking makes you a better drummer, but those guys all got better as they aged as "dopers"
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Re: Re:

Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:47 am



lesterroyer wrote:I'm sorry, but this video is not credible.

The first whole minute talks about marijuana increased brain functions. This is crap. California, the state known for making marijuana legal, has between 70%-80% dropout rates. That is about 1 in 4 people. If you have talked to someone who is smarter after they smoke dope, I'd be very suprised.

At 5:15, it show it has precancerous effects to animals, yet they say it has no link to cancer. Then they show it has no connection to it at all, but then say it has effects on it that remove it.

At 7:20, their arguement for schitzophrenia sounds more like a theory than tested fact.

I kinda gave up after 9 minutes or so. Sorry, I did try. This video is pretty bogus. These "studies" just seem either made up, or exaggerated to help a point.

Most of the states passing laws for pro use were also those that voted democrat, being the side that is not only for legalizing in general, but is the political party where all the smokers put their alliegance in hope that they can get their hobby legalized. I'm not trying to bash democrats in any way when I say that, I'm just making an observation.
at 5:15 they said it showed precancerous effects in animals, yes. the study that was done on actual humans over 25 years showed no link. the precancerous effects in animals (again, just from the tar of smoking-if you're vaping or using edibles, it doesn't apply at all) is worrying, but the video also talks about how the THC helps counteract any negative effect.


it's well and good that you're pointing these things out. I would like to see the sources and facts from which your beliefs stem, though. I base a lot of my current beliefs off of this video and others, as well as my doctor who actually recommended marijuana when I was having a health scare, but I haven't seen any real facts (that aren't over 20 years old from REAGAN) supporting your case. TVO's don't count-in a debate, the more recent the source, the better and more reliable. The research supporting marijuana is less than two years old, and a lot of the studies actually disprove the old ones. I'm didn't see any actual counter evidence in TVO's post, but I assume he's going to comment back calling me names again (sure, I smoke dope, but I'm certainly not mad, I'm pretty good-natured about things). But if you do have any counter evidence, it would be good to see. I could be entirely wrong on this topic, but I'd need to see good facts before I would admit it. Being wrong isn't a bad thing, it means you learned something. I like to learn. It's for your health

and good work trying, but watch a little longer. if you want 10 minutes to 20 minutes it will show you how THC is good for you by explain the endocanabanoid system and how it works. 10more minutes of video. you can then decide whether or not to watch the rest, and if you can refute all of it you deserve a really, really big cookie
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Re: What if Cannabis Cured Cancer?

Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 5:36 am



hotbeats645 wrote:lol at TVO saying weed makes you have slower reflexes as a drummer. have you heard of thomas pridgen? billy cobham? ?ueslove? Elvin? victor lewis? dennis mackrel? the list could literally go on for a day. you've got to be joking. I'm almost 100% sure you're a troll now. I'm not saying smoking makes you a better drummer, but those guys all got better as they aged as "dopers"
Yo I am saying it,weed without a doubt makes you a better drummer, but you kinda have to be a good drummer in the first place or else then your just a high sucky drummer and thats no fun :( well nevermind at least your high
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Re: What if Cannabis Cured Cancer?

Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 12:09 pm



hotbeats645 wrote:lol at TVO saying weed makes you have slower reflexes as a drummer. have you heard of thomas pridgen? billy cobham? ?ueslove? Elvin? victor lewis? dennis mackrel? the list could literally go on for a day. you've got to be joking. I'm almost 100% sure you're a troll now. I'm not saying smoking makes you a better drummer, but those guys all got better as they aged as "dopers"

So are you denying that Marijuana has a negative effect on reflex/reaction time? Because studies have shown this repeatedly.

Now I know you're just trying to defend being a druggie. It's really sad what people like you will resort to. First you use the sickly as a means to defend your own bad habits, then you get mad when someone states an opinion contrary to the majority opinion on here, then you talk ill of someone who has stated they were going to leave the conversation, then you flat out deny obvious facts that even most stoners will admit to by falsely using a few famous drummers who also smoked marijuana. I'm sorry, but that doesn't counter-act years of studying the effects of marijuana on reaction time.

This always happens on every forum that I'm a member of. Someone will eventually make a drug-based topic and then a bunch of other users will come and bicker about it being illegal and make false claims of its "usefulness". Face it, your bad habit is illegal and you are all breaking the law by doing it just as I used to.



http://alcoholism.about.com/od/pot/a/effects.-Lya.htm
http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/evidence99 ... lth_1.html



And for Scientific papers:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 084701.htm

^ Read the related journals as well obviously.



Enjoy debunking that, since instead of examining the link I posted earlier you simply dismissed it as being "too old".
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Re: Re:

Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:12 pm



yoshikinto wrote: I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here... Was anyone saying that marijuana made people smarter or would fix the public school system? Increased brain functions doesn't mean increased intelligence or problem solving skills. And I really just don't see how the dropout rate is related to any of this. I haven't watched the video (and I probably won't) and I haven't looked at any studies about marijuana's effect on brain function, but I feel like that first bit of your post didn't make sense.
Well, my point there was that the people there are dumb. I personally blame it on marijuana. I lived in the LAUSD, a school district out there, for about a year. The people there are just really dumb, and they ALL smoke. I was living there while my brother lived here in KC. We compared homework and we were doing about the same things mathwise, despite him being three grades below me. California dummed their public schools down so that people could pass, and many of them still can do long division at the age of 13. All of these people were potheads, and it showed. This was one of the main reasons I moved.
hotbeats645 wrote: and good work trying, but watch a little longer. if you want 10 minutes to 20 minutes it will show you how THC is good for you by explain the endocanabanoid system and how it works. 10more minutes of video. you can then decide whether or not to watch the rest, and if you can refute all of it you deserve a really, really big cookie
Well, I just stopped because I didn't find anything in the first 10 minutes very credible, and those type of videos tend to continue to be unreliable. Sorry, I just didn't want to waste a bunch of time, especially because I was on break at work. :lol:
But really, do you have any other evidence this is correct? TVO has put quite a few down. I know his most recent ones are at least somewhat accurate. It mentions how it decreases blood pressure and increases the heart rate.
I have a story that could probably attest to that.

My uncle Jeff was a total pothead. From what I remember, he always talked about how much it made him feel stronger and more capable. It expanded what he was able to do. He used to take it before going on runs because of that. Anyway, on one of his runs, he had a heart attack and died. He died at the age of 32. Not a common age to die of a heart attack out of the blue. They said he had been under the influence on his run. My guess, looking at TVOs cited evidence, is that jogging, plus marijuana really made his heart work really hard. On top of that, the blood pressure went down. I'm guessing all the blood coming back into the heart got to him after a while. This is all speculation, but its just something that came up. He didn't die by overdose per se, but it still could have killed him.
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sxetnrdrmr Offline
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Re:

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:30 am



I would just like to know...

if marijuana use doesn't really hurt anybody, what are all of the people in Mexico dying for in the drug induced chaos that is tearing that country apart? It all isn't JUST cocaine. I guess I feel that unless you completely grow and process your own, you are in some way touching, and fueling the violence that surrounds the drug culture. It isn't always the USE that is violent...it is the attainment and distribution.

Just as background, I have never been stoned or drunk, so I don't have, and will never have first hand experience. I have come up in the Straight Edge culture of hardcore/punk (sXetnrdrmr). I am also not trying to judge people who do use, since most of my friends have or still do use, but as some have mentioned on here, it seems like the made-up excuses start flying when one knows one is involved in something that they KNOW, deep down inside, is wrong on a larger karmic level. It is like me and my weight problem. I KNOW the extra burger is bad for me, but I can sure rationalize eating it, AND make myself feel good about it at the time, thought i KNOW, in the long run that it is bad for me.

By virtue of that fact, I am not going to try to sway people to my side of thinking b/c it is not my goal, and the people who use pot are set in their ways just like I am set in mine. I just always think that we are all part of a longer string of things than we think we are in all of our actions. The whole Karma thing. A lot of times we only think about ourselves and our little bubble, and NOT about how what we do effects those that we don't even know.
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Madjical Offline
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Re: What if Cannabis Cured Cancer?

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:33 am



TVOham wrote:
hotbeats645 wrote:lol at TVO saying weed makes you have slower reflexes as a drummer. have you heard of thomas pridgen? billy cobham? ?ueslove? Elvin? victor lewis? dennis mackrel? the list could literally go on for a day. you've got to be joking. I'm almost 100% sure you're a troll now. I'm not saying smoking makes you a better drummer, but those guys all got better as they aged as "dopers"

So are you denying that Marijuana has a negative effect on reflex/reaction time? Because studies have shown this repeatedly.

Now I know you're just trying to defend being a druggie. It's really sad what people like you will resort to. First you use the sickly as a means to defend your own bad habits, then you get mad when someone states an opinion contrary to the majority opinion on here, then you talk ill of someone who has stated they were going to leave the conversation, then you flat out deny obvious facts that even most stoners will admit to by falsely using a few famous drummers who also smoked marijuana. I'm sorry, but that doesn't counter-act years of studying the effects of marijuana on reaction time.

This always happens on every forum that I'm a member of. Someone will eventually make a drug-based topic and then a bunch of other users will come and bicker about it being illegal and make false claims of its "usefulness". Face it, your bad habit is illegal and you are all breaking the law by doing it just as I used to.



http://alcoholism.about.com/od/pot/a/effects.-Lya.htm
http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/evidence99 ... lth_1.html



And for Scientific papers:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 084701.htm

^ Read the related journals as well obviously.



Enjoy debunking that, since instead of examining the link I posted earlier you simply dismissed it as being "too old".
Your first source seems to have it's information backed properly, sourced, and reliable. My only gripe with the first source is that there aren't any statistics, and again, it's vague. "Research indicates..." "..can cause.." These type of statements lead me to question how it was obtained. There is no margin to show what the deficit was between groups. It's not even concrete when research 'indicates.' When an article uses the word 'proven' or a synonym that implies that it is factual and has been confirmed across the board, then it is 100% reliable.

Your second source is even more guilty of being vague. Opening sentence; "I must preface these statements with the remark that there is still a great deal of research to be done concerning the effects of marijuana on the health of humans..." It even claims in the respiratory paragraph that it has been 'strongly suggested, but not conclusively proven.' Second source is out the window for me.

Third source, finally, some numbers and concrete studies. I cannot argue with something like that, but I can say that if this is the only proven evidence that has been provided thus far in this argument, I'd rather have my peers use cannabis and have them be a bit under the weather in the memory section, than use alcohol and develop liver cirrhosis. Which leads me to my next argument..

What is legal and illegal. Actual deaths based off use. I do know out of 2.9 million, 26 died due to cannabis. 79,000 died from alcohol poisoning. The difference is night and day. I won't even get into operating a vehicle or any type of machinary.

Now, don't get me wrong here, I'm not for using cannabis, alcohol, or any other substance. I'm simply saying that if people are going to use a substance, parameters should be drawn and we should revisit what's safe and what's dangerous. I shouldn't say what's safe...more along the lines of less dangerous. Until extensive research and concrete conclusions are drawn on the substance, statistics are in favor. Hell, I could on record and say "Research suggests teddy grahams lead to lung problems" because I coughed after eating a teddy graham. I'm an engineer and a scientist. "A scientist has found that teddy grahams can lead to lung conditions, such as chronic coughing." It's easy to bend and mold statements to get people on your side. Propoganda. If you're going to come out guns blazing, make sure you know both sides, and you've got some extra gun powder behind the bullets.

That being said, both parties are guilty of this, no more one than the other. Again, not promoting use of anything, but the numbers don't lie. If people are going to use something, I'd rather it be from something that takes the lives of less people every year, with many rules stamped on it. Driving, public use, amount permitted to carry, age limit, and several others. Just as alcohol has. In a perfect world, this wouldn't be an issue, but you can't keep sweeping the dirt under the rug. Try to refrain from talking down and using the word "druggie" or any other slander. Even if it's true, name calling isn't necessary. Be the bigger person. We need to be conscious of what's doing the most proven damage, and try to level the playing field.


ottomagne Offline
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Re: What if Cannabis Cured Cancer?

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:09 am



Madjical wrote:
TVOham wrote:
hotbeats645 wrote:lol at TVO saying weed makes you have slower reflexes as a drummer. have you heard of thomas pridgen? billy cobham? ?ueslove? Elvin? victor lewis? dennis mackrel? the list could literally go on for a day. you've got to be joking. I'm almost 100% sure you're a troll now. I'm not saying smoking makes you a better drummer, but those guys all got better as they aged as "dopers"

So are you denying that Marijuana has a negative effect on reflex/reaction time? Because studies have shown this repeatedly.

Now I know you're just trying to defend being a druggie. It's really sad what people like you will resort to. First you use the sickly as a means to defend your own bad habits, then you get mad when someone states an opinion contrary to the majority opinion on here, then you talk ill of someone who has stated they were going to leave the conversation, then you flat out deny obvious facts that even most stoners will admit to by falsely using a few famous drummers who also smoked marijuana. I'm sorry, but that doesn't counter-act years of studying the effects of marijuana on reaction time.

This always happens on every forum that I'm a member of. Someone will eventually make a drug-based topic and then a bunch of other users will come and bicker about it being illegal and make false claims of its "usefulness". Face it, your bad habit is illegal and you are all breaking the law by doing it just as I used to.



http://alcoholism.about.com/od/pot/a/effects.-Lya.htm
http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/evidence99 ... lth_1.html



And for Scientific papers:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 084701.htm

^ Read the related journals as well obviously.



Enjoy debunking that, since instead of examining the link I posted earlier you simply dismissed it as being "too old".
Your first source seems to have it's information backed properly, sourced, and reliable. My only gripe with the first source is that there aren't any statistics, and again, it's vague. "Research indicates..." "..can cause.." These type of statements lead me to question how it was obtained. There is no margin to show what the deficit was between groups. It's not even concrete when research 'indicates.' When an article uses the word 'proven' or a synonym that implies that it is factual and has been confirmed across the board, then it is 100% reliable.

Your second source is even more guilty of being vague. Opening sentence; "I must preface these statements with the remark that there is still a great deal of research to be done concerning the effects of marijuana on the health of humans..." It even claims in the respiratory paragraph that it has been 'strongly suggested, but not conclusively proven.' Second source is out the window for me.

Third source, finally, some numbers and concrete studies. I cannot argue with something like that, but I can say that if this is the only proven evidence that has been provided thus far in this argument, I'd rather have my peers use cannabis and have them be a bit under the weather in the memory section, than use alcohol and develop liver cirrhosis. Which leads me to my next argument..

What is legal and illegal. Actual deaths based off use. I do know out of 2.9 million, 26 died due to cannabis. 79,000 died from alcohol poisoning. The difference is night and day. I won't even get into operating a vehicle or any type of machinary.

Now, don't get me wrong here, I'm not for using cannabis, alcohol, or any other substance. I'm simply saying that if people are going to use a substance, parameters should be drawn and we should revisit what's safe and what's dangerous. I shouldn't say what's safe...more along the lines of less dangerous. Until extensive research and concrete conclusions are drawn on the substance, statistics are in favor. Hell, I could on record and say "Research suggests teddy grahams lead to lung problems" because I coughed after eating a teddy graham. I'm an engineer and a scientist. "A scientist has found that teddy grahams can lead to lung conditions, such as chronic coughing." It's easy to bend and mold statements to get people on your side. Propoganda. If you're going to come out guns blazing, make sure you know both sides, and you've got some extra gun powder behind the bullets.

That being said, both parties are guilty of this, no more one than the other. Again, not promoting use of anything, but the numbers don't lie. If people are going to use something, I'd rather it be from something that takes the lives of less people every year, with many rules stamped on it. Driving, public use, amount permitted to carry, age limit, and several others. Just as alcohol has. In a perfect world, this wouldn't be an issue, but you can't keep sweeping the dirt under the rug. Try to refrain from talking down and using the word "druggie" or any other slander. Even if it's true, name calling isn't necessary. Be the bigger person. We need to be conscious of what's doing the most proven damage, and try to level the playing field.
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Re: Re:

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:01 am



sxetnrdrmr wrote:I would just like to know...

if marijuana use doesn't really hurt anybody, what are all of the people in Mexico dying for in the drug induced chaos that is tearing that country apart? It all isn't JUST cocaine. I guess I feel that unless you completely grow and process your own, you are in some way touching, and fueling the violence that surrounds the drug culture. It isn't always the USE that is violent...it is the attainment and distribution.

Just as background, I have never been stoned or drunk, so I don't have, and will never have first hand experience. I have come up in the Straight Edge culture of hardcore/punk (sXetnrdrmr). I am also not trying to judge people who do use, since most of my friends have or still do use, but as some have mentioned on here, it seems like the made-up excuses start flying when one knows one is involved in something that they KNOW, deep down inside, is wrong on a larger karmic level. It is like me and my weight problem. I KNOW the extra burger is bad for me, but I can sure rationalize eating it, AND make myself feel good about it at the time, thought i KNOW, in the long run that it is bad for me.

By virtue of that fact, I am not going to try to sway people to my side of thinking b/c it is not my goal, and the people who use pot are set in their ways just like I am set in mine. I just always think that we are all part of a longer string of things than we think we are in all of our actions. The whole Karma thing. A lot of times we only think about ourselves and our little bubble, and NOT about how what we do effects those that we don't even know.
Very valid point, but what is causing the killing is the law not the plant. If the herb was legal there would be no drug cartels (for weed) because there would be no need to smuggle and everyone would be free to grow their own thus no more deaths over this drug war. So what is really the source of all this bad karma, the plant or the people who say its bad?
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Madjical Offline
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Re: What if Cannabis Cured Cancer?

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:07 am



Madj, you remain so *beep* awesome.
Haha, I appreciate that! I'm just calling it as I see it, though. Definitely a good topic to discuss.


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Re: Re:

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:52 pm



sxetnrdrmr wrote:I would just like to know...

if marijuana use doesn't really hurt anybody, what are all of the people in Mexico dying for in the drug induced chaos that is tearing that country apart? It all isn't JUST cocaine. I guess I feel that unless you completely grow and process your own, you are in some way touching, and fueling the violence that surrounds the drug culture. It isn't always the USE that is violent...it is the attainment and distribution.

People are dying in Mexico because the drug is illegal. Cartels use marijuana as a cash crop-it is cheap and easy to grow, and there is nearly unlimited demand for it. Because of the money they bring in smuggling and selling marijuana, they can afford to produce meth, cocaine, heroin, etc. Because they stand to lose so much, they spend a lot of their money on weapons to protect their cash flow and battle the government. They make much more money than the government.

Legalize marijuana-farmers can grow the crop, legitimate business (that already exist and thrive in Colorado, California, Michigan, etc) can buy crop from legitimate, legal growers. Cost for the plant goes down, the demand for illegal drugs from cartels goes way down, they have less money to manufacture the hard, dangerous drugs. Marijuana isn't hurting anybody-the illegality behind marijuana and the process it has to go through to make a profit for the gangs hurts people
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Re: What if Cannabis Cured Cancer?

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:00 pm



and thank you TVO for posting a couple of legitimate sources-I'll be sure to look through them in detail when I get a chance. I would appreciate if you did the same with my video-explanations from scientists, researchers, and experts from bigger, more recent studies than your 2005 study that do in fact debunk your sources with a lot more conviction (again, if you haven't watched it, you have no clue what you're even trying to debunk. I understand the first 10 minutes don't have all of the facts in it, but it's a 50 minute documentary. Did Super Size Me explain the whole fast food industry in the first half hour? of course not). You're the one here who has more debunking to do than I do. You're not just arguing against me here-you're arguing against a lot of very intelligent people who have done 15+ year studies on hundreds of people and animals to discover what THC does to naturally stimulate the endocanabanoid system (other animals have a far more advanced ECS than we do, such as cats. They've evolved to the point where they don't need THC).


And please stop generalizing us as "dopers". I smoke to get high quite a bit, but I also do have medical issues that I smoke for (as recommended by my doctors, who I trust way more than you). I don't really feel comfortable sharing the extent of what I'm going through on a public forum, but if you are curious about how marijuana is benefiting me medically and you don't want to watch the video, please PM me about it.

Not everybody uses marijuana correctly. Not everybody uses any drug correctly. Caffiene, pain killers, nicotine, all legal drugs that have benefits are abused and some cause a lot of harm. Is everybody who takes Aderal a doper because people in college use it to write a last minute final? But please, you don't know me or anybody or what they're going through, and you certainly shouldn't be generalizing "people like you" and "druggies". You don't know jack about what people are going through
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Re:

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:12 pm



I attempted to leave the discussion after posting my opinion and you insulted me, lol.

Just have your little group therapy session with these other "marijuana-users" (happy?). Just keep my name out of it. I don't plan on spending 50 minutes watching some documentary that's trying to convince me a mind-altering drug is good for you.

By the way, any documentary can be convincing. Just because there's "Scientists" and "PhD's" in it, doesn't make it true. How do you think it is that so many Creationists are able to convince people that Evolution is false? They wisely bring in PhD's who talk about some nonsense that ends up convincing people of what they're saying for an hour.
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